Tuesday, February 26, 2013

Fishbowl #2: Fahrenheit 451, pages 1-21 ("into the rain")

We can do better than we did on our fishbowl comments today.  Here are some things I hope to see:

1.  Effective proofreading of our work.  See that button on the far right of your toolbar marked "abc" followed by a check mark.

2.  Consistent participation throughout discussion's duration.  It is unacceptable to be inactive for 15 minutes of a 30 minute discussion.

3.  Well-supported and defended thinking.  Explain why you think what you do, referring back to particular plot points or passages to support your ideas.

Happy posting!  Here's to a better second round!
                                                                                                                                                                   

93 comments:

  1. What do you think of Clarisse? What makes you think this of her?

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    1. I think that she might not be as bright as Montag is and that frustrates Montag because he is trying to make a living and she only wants to spend it on something that doesn't make sense like those TV walls.

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    2. When I think of Clarisse I think of a person who might end up rebellious towards the book burning.

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    3. I think she is interesting. i like her because she points out flaws in the society they live in.

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    4. I find her a very interesting character. Her entire personality represents change and observation. When she questions Montag on if he's happy was the only question Montag takes time to think about.

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    5. Clarisse seems to be from somewhere where books aren't illegal, or something like that. I think this because she asks whether or not Montag reads the books before he burns them, and expresses extreme interest in the past.

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    6. I think Clarisse is a very curious young girl. She's so interested in the past and the way things were there back then. She seems happy but i think she wants to be different and break away from society,because she asks Montag if he's happy. Maybe she's wondering if anybody else feels the way she does.

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    7. I think she is very rebellious and has a mind of her own. Shes one of those people who aren't afraid to say what they think and that can be a deal breaker in a society like theirs.

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    8. Clarisse acts like the conscious of Montag because she tells him about what has happened and what he has done. She talks about all the fires people have started. I also find it interesting she asks a lot of questions about him.

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    9. Clarisse seems very interesting. I don't really know what to think of her. Montag thought that she was actually waiting for him by the lamp post at night, and thats not at usual thing to do.

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    10. I feel that Clarisse is a very free spirit and she doesn't think the same as Montag. And I feel that her family and her are from a place were all the things these people know aren't what they know and they could be from a place were this stuff doesn't happen like burning books and books being illegal.

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    11. I think she knows something that Montag doesn't know. She is always looking at Montag in a funny way, and asking questions about his happiness. She definitely seems unique from everyone else which could cause a problem later on in the book.

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  2. On the bottom of pg 17- the top of 18 " One drop of rain. Clarisse..." how did you interpret this passage?

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    1. I honestly don't know. The most I can put together is that the drops are drops of kerosene going onto the books. Maybe he will forget about everything that has happened so far?

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    2. Or maybe the drops are like his mind running through the events of that day. One after another.

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    3. I think that every time a rain drop falls, which is very often in a rain storm, more than a thousand a second, Montag thinks of Clarisse, her uncle, Mildred and his job.

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    4. Maybe the raindrops symbolize his experiences he's had with those specific people. This passage shows that these people have affected Montag in a big way. Maybe it's foreshadowing about something that's going to happen that will change everything,

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    5. I would agree, I think it is trying to sum up the things that happened to Montag and how, in just a few moments, his life can change at any moment.

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  3. @Class
    I noticed that the author uses the word "moonlight" or "moonlit" a lot. Why do you think that is ?

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    1. I think it's a symbol of hope or that something good or bad is going to happen soon

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    2. i almost think because moonlit/moonlight is a kind of eerie word; Like in scary movies its like 'on a moonlitnight,' etc. I almost feel as if its foreshadowing.

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    3. Moonlight isn't very bright for one and maybe like Ashley said it's a symbol of hope or something good or bad is to come.

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    4. I feel like maybe it is a way of saying that even though everything is crumbling down around them but there is still a little bit of light and the light that is left might be able to lead them through till the end were they can find something better.

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  4. Why does Montag not tell his wife what happened in the morning? (Page 19)

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    1. He didn't want her to know, and didn't know how to tell her. Wouldn't you want to keep something like that from a loved one?

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    2. Maybe he's afraid of her having a relapse again and find another way to try to commit suicide. On page 19 it's then he chooses to tell Mildred, but I don't completely understand why he'd wait to tell her what happened the night before.

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  5. What do you think of Montague? And why?

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    1. I think he's a bit naive. He tries to justifies Mildred's actions of suicide by saying she took several at a time and forgot if she took the right dose (pg 19)

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    2. Montag seems to be a very strong man, but ever since he has talked to Clarisse he is unsure of everything he knows, or has ever known. When he was talking to Clarisse (pg 9) the author says that Montag was shooting her accusing glances. He is trying to figure out what she is talking about because everything she says goes against what he has learned since he was a child.

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    3. I think he now goes though life with no sense of happiness because nothings new in the world. Also Clarisse probably believes he's not happy because she asks him if he's happy. I don't think he enjoys his job. Maybe he doesn't like the job anymore. He's also worried about his wife.

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  6. I think he compares that to perfume because he constantly smells like the from work, so to him, that's his perfume

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    1. and a lot of people feel good when they smell good (if that makes sense) so maybe it makes him happy to smell like kerosene because he loves the scent.

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  7. @Angelo I think Clarisse is a very outgoing young woman. She is very interested in many things and she isnt afraid to say what is on her mind. He says some very surprising things to Montag considering she just met him. I think that we will see a different, deeper side to her further into the book as her character and relationships develop.

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  8. @Erica
    Montag seems to be really odd. It's really hard to understand what he is thinking because of Ray Bradbury's writing.

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  9. To what extent has Clarisse made Montag think about the quality of his life?

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    1. To an extent it has kind of awoken him to the dull and technologically dominated society that he lives in.

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    2. Clarisse has started to open his eyes and his mind about his life. I think that she is going to change his life and make him a happy person.

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    3. I think she makes him feel bad about himself at sometimes. At one point he became irritated that he didn't know the answer to the question she asked. I think she makes him feel stupid and his life "not worthy living"

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    4. I think Clarisse has started to make him realize what really is going on in society, but he also seems pretty close-minded about others ideas of how society was. I think this because when Clarisse said that she heard that firemen used to put out fires, not start them, he seemed like he knew the correct answer, but lied and said that they had always started fires.

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    5. I feel as if Clarisse has made it a big deal in her mind and she is gonna work really hard to make him think about life. Like how she asked him if he was happy and she ran right to her house. I feel as if she wants to make him think a lot about his answer, so he has a good answer next time they speak and so he can't just answer back really fast like he did to all of her other questions!

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    6. What Clarisse has said to Montag has really got under his skin because he seems to be less sure of his life. In the book through the pages after talking to Clarisse he really seem to question things.

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  10. Pg. 9 "I rarely watch the parlor walls." What does this passage say about Clarisse?

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    1. That she is much more attentive than the rest of the world.

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    2. Clarisse is saying she doesn't do very extravagant things and in all the quotes she says it seems like she is a observer and reads between the lines in everything she sees and does.

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    3. I think Clarisse is observant and curious. She wants to explore and experience reality, not watch it from parlor walls.

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    4. That Clarisse is enjoying her life with thoughts, and isn't being drowned by what others have to say about the present. She dreams.

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  11. How do you think the relationship between Montag and others such as Clarisse with change, for better or for worse, throughout the book? Will they become closer or will something push them apart?

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    1. I think since shes so stubborn with a mind of her own it will push them apart.

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    2. I think that it could go either way. Clarisse seems to know something that she shouldn't know, or have something that she shouldn't have. When this is revealed, either Montag will burn her house down, or Clarisse will influence Montag to make a difference. Since Montag seems to be the main protagonist, it looks like he would be the one to make a difference.

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    3. I think Clarisse and Montag will grow closer in the book. I think they both will realize they aren't happy with their lives and will try to change they way their society lives. It will take Montag awhile to find the courage to make things different , but it will eventually happen.

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    4. I feel like they will grow closer because she is the one who really opened up his mind and made him think about all the different senerios.

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    5. I think that they will get closer and she will try to teach him that books really aren't a bad thing. I think that he will end up actually liking books.

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  12. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  14. Why do you think Clarisse asks Montag "Are you happy?" on page.10?

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    1. When he answers to her he simply can't answer a yes or no to her. I think Montag doesn't remember what happiness is and how it feels to him.

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    2. maybe she believes no one can be truly happy living in a world like this.

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    3. I think that she wanted him to gain sight of his life and how it is. When she says this, he realizes that he is not happy. I think that maybe, she will help him become happy.

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    4. Maybe Clarisse isn't happy with the life she lives and she's wondering if anybody shares those feelings with her. She's looking for somebody that she can bond with and find a way to change her life.

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    5. She wanted to open his eyes to the though of books, and how they actually only help people, not hurt

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    6. She wants Montag to stop and think about it because he didn't stop and think about all of the other questions she asked him.

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  15. On page 8 when Clarisse is asking about how the fireman back then used to put out fires instead of start them, and Montag says that houses have always been fireproof, does that mean that houses in their time don't catch fire by accident? Does anything happen by accident in their time?

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    1. I think that because of the dull lives they live, they are not open to surprise of any kind. This might have to do with houses not catching fire anymore.

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    2. I think in this time, everything is "perfect" and things never happen by accident.

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  16. What does the Hearth and the Salamander mean?

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    1. On page 19, about halfway down the page, it mentions that his badge has a salamander on it. The hearth is a symbol of family, and here, the salamander represents the firemen. So it is the family, presumably Clarisse's family, since they are obviously so close, and 451.

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    2. I think the hearth represents how fire was used for and seen as good. And the salamander, being the symbol of the firemen. Maybe representing how fire in Montag's society is used for and seen as evil.

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    3. I'm confused as to how those two objects have a significance to the section. Especially the salamander. Why wouldn't a fire station chose an animal that's not a amphibian? Or maybe the fire station didn't have a choice. About the hearth, it's a place outside the fireplace that's comforting when a fire is lit in the fireplace, but can also be dangerous.

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    4. I think the heart means that he is a loyal and a brave fireman, and the salamander might be a sign of safety, or maybe it means his suit is fireproof.

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  17. Why is everything related to darkness? The book is about fire and fire is bright. Is there a reason why there is so much darkness?

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    1. The book takes place in an unhappy time where everything is just dark. I think of fire as dark because fire destroys things like in this case, books. I am guessing that the whole town is not opened minded and that is why everything is dark.

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    2. Darkness serves two purposes. One, it makes the fire seem so much brighter, and emphasizes the vivid flames against the midnight sky. Two, the phrase 'in the dark' almost always means ignorant. Ignorance is exactly the purpose of book burning.

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    3. maybe because the fire is the only source of light they have in the darkness. (metaphorically not actually)

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  18. Pg 20 "Thats one-third of my yearly pay." "It's only $2,000."
    How come yearly pay has decreased so much from what is is now?

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    1. Keep in mind that this book was written in 1953. Two thousand dollars was a lot more money back then.

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  19. Why is it so weird to Montag that Clarisse's family sits down and talks?

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    1. When I was reading Montag's and Mildred's relationship between each other, they didn't talk much about anything significant. Montag goes to work and Mildred reads scripts. I think they're too busy with themselves to be invested in each other. Montag doesn't experience conversation with Mildred, so it's going to sound bizarre to him.

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  20. Why don't they ban pills in this society if everyone is trying to commit suicide with them?

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    1. There is no reason to ban pills because they can just save people with someone as simple as a handyman.

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    2. It doesn't seem that everyone's trying to kill themselves. It's more likely that the pills are enough of a depressant to make someone forget that they are taking them. I'm under the impression that this is a rather new problem.

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    3. Did Mildred really try to commit suicide or was it like Montag said on page 19 "Maybe you took two pills and forgot..." Or is that just what Montag wants to believe?

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    4. Pills aren't just being used to commit suicide, they are being used to help people in a good way and banning them wouldn't help the people who actually need these pills.

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  21. I think he tries to throw off the reader to keeps them interested, and so they don't expect anything

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  22. Why do you think Montag isn't happy? (pg. 12)

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    1. Maybe Montag is just tried of doing the same thing everyday and just kind of done with life. I don't really know.

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    2. It's not so much that he isn't happy. I think that he begins to feel out of his comfort zone when Clarisse a 17 year old. Points out flaws in the society that he has never notice. Which begins to make him question other things.

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    3. I think Clarisse made him think deep down about genuine happiness, and something hit him at that moment that he wasn't happy. I don't really know what led him to make this observation.

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    1. I think that they burns books so that the people who would read them don't get there own opinion on things and revolt.

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  24. What does the author men when he says: "In the late afternoon it rained and the entire world was dark gray" ? (pg. 19) Why does he use world?

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  25. Montag seems to be very arrogant, why do you think this is?

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  26. Books are a way for people to escape and explore their own imagination. I think that in this society, in this time, is taking away people's thoughts and individuality. Knowing what actual life is, it would be very difficult to live in this society, like this.

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  27. How does Clarisse change Montag's way of thinking? How do you think he will change?

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